Podcast transcript
Introduction
Hi and welcome to another live episode of Marketplace Masters, brought to you by MerchantSpring, the leading Marketplace analytics platform for Amazon agencies and vendors. Now Marketplace Masters strives to go deeper into the challenges that vendors and agencies face to lift e-commerce and Marketplace performance through practical actions and insights.
Paul Sonneveld
I'm your host Paul Sonneveld and today we're going to learn how you can diversify risk and maximize the opportunity by launching brands in multiple countries. And we're going to look at this from both a strategic as well as an operational point of view. Now, to help us do this. I've invited Stef van Boekel to join us, and share his expertise and perspectives.
Now, before I hand over to him, let me introduce him to you. Stef is the founder of Marketplace Distri, a European Amazon operator and accelerator. He has Launched more than 100 brands from startups SMEs to fortune 500 companies in European markets and has generated millions of sales for these customers in the process. It goes without saying that it brings a lot of experience to the conversation today. So thank you very much for being on the show today, Steph.
Stef van Boekel
Thank you, Paul.
Paul Sonneveld
It's absolutely lovely. I know this is your bread and butter. So, I thought maybe to kick us off. Let's start really with the basics, top line. I'm a very successful brand and I'm operating in my home market that maybe the UK, or maybe the US, or even Australia where I'm based, Why should I think about expanding internationally? what's in it for me?
Stef van Boekel
Well, good question, unfortunately, just a few actually really considering that option. If you look only European level less than 2% actually selling on an international level. So the majority is like you successful in our home country and maybe reach maturity, when it comes to Market and your product approach the market fit, I about, you want to want togrow. Now, if youdon't want togrow, basically have 2 options, you extend your product portfolio, which obviously is also makes an expansive project, or the other option that you have is basically reaching out new markets with existing products.
Obviously, what is nice is when you use the Amazon platform you take away with you with all the reviews related to it. So, I really advise everybody to think without borders. In my expertise and my opinion is also the only way how too long look how to basically survive on the long term.
So yeah, if I would directly say what would be the first thing to do is to say, I do not have a preference in which Market I'm going to sell. So if you're from the UK may be thinking on, let's go to Germany because that's the next biggest Market or when you're from the, for example, from the Netherlands, you take what's my neighbor countries Belgium and Germany. But I think the biggest thing that you should let go is basically to choose the market that is most accessible instead of focusing more on the market, that brings to the large opportunity.
Paul Sonneveld
Yes, I was gonna ask you about that. How do you evaluate and make that trade-off? So let's take a practical example. I mean, either UK, I guess I'm separated by water from everywhere else. Let's say when the Netherlands right much more practical, I could go, South Belgium, France. Belgium has just launched very small probably want to skip over that, maybe not. Germany, probably depending on how you count, third or fourth-largest Amazon market, really big but language a bit different. What are the trade-offs when it comes to a decision like that?
Stef van Boekel
Well, basically, what everybody does is indeed look at the neighbor countries but let's just focus or where is your largest market. So what you maybe don't know is that the market is the total of your market is larger than the US 50% largest. The average spending is higher and you have half of the sellers that you have in the US.
So the market is not that saturated as you see for example in the US at least. So, what we typically do is start checking in all the nine countries and also its market including Belgium. How is your product category doing? What kind of revenues are there? Who are your competitors? In which price category are reactive? what transport specifications do they have?
So you basically start looking at what’s larger market? Start calculating with the different fee levels. If you would what the return would be after all the deductions and in the meanwhile, you also start cross checking and who are your top competitors? What kind of revenues are they making? How long have you been selling all the platform? How is the presentation of the product page? are the specifications when it comes to product defects as price?
So basically, you take consider all kinds of let's say requirements before you need to check some books, before you can actually say, okay, this Market, is this the size this would be the margins were able to make, this how much we need to invest to make at least to start getting some awareness. And from there obviously, you have a budget available most probably you start choosing the market and the products that most probably on the short term, the ones that are going to bring the most success.
Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, and after being, obviously size is massively important, really We're talking about size of the market, competition. That gives you a sense of, you know, maybe how much share can you capture and therefore, for what's the revenue you can look to project. Outside of that sizing piece, what are the other main considerations that you talk to customers about on whether to choose between Let's say, in all very hypothetical or let's say, you're deciding between going to Germany by actually,
This is a question I get a lot in terms of the U.S. right. So U.S. sellers looking to expand outside of the US. Want to go to a big market. You've got Germany pretty big market. You got Japan pretty big market right?
Stef van Boekel
Right.
Paul Sonneveld
We don’t have the exact numbers but how do you navigate through the trade off like that? Let's assume the kind of opportunity is similar, what is the next set of considerations you want to think about?
Stef van Boekel
Well once you going to be going to have the idea of the market potential then it because all let's say the step two which towards reaching that market. So basically what we are always say, begin with the end of mind and start making steps back how to start reaching that customer in Germany. So that the customer in Germany has the idea in buying something locally. So that starts with making sure you can ship next day.
If you want to have a next-day delivery, that means you have a need to have storage in that country. If you want to have storage in that country, that also means you need them VAT number in that country, so it becomes done. Once you have set up that structure to be able to ship and to sell, then obviously, what you also need to consider is the product compliance on a European level, but also the Amazon level.
You have, obviously the content related activity. So that is the product page optimization that needs to be done by a company that is specialized Amazon keyword research in that country. So start with market research down the operational part and then basically making sure you're compliant and then you should be able to make. You have a plan available to start selling in Germany or any other country you basically want to want to start it.
Thus, the process is always similar, the variety is basically on the country level, on product and country level. The compliance can be different, the requirements can be different, but obviously also fee levels are completely different for example, and you pay 25% in Germany, pay 19%. So there is no such thing as a European strategy. I always say you need to have a localized approach with a local partner that understands the market. Once you have that done, you can pretty much kill rapidly.
Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, I was going to ask and I appreciate the fact that you're saying, that there's no such thing as one European market but it there must be things that are easier, you know, going from one European country to another versus going from say the UK to the US. Right?
Stef van Boekel
Of course.
Paul Sonneveld
What are the things that are marginally easier, you by expansion within Europe. What are the bits that are just a little bit easier than having to go into an, you know, expansion outside somewhere in Europe? You know, obviously you're assuming that your home country is in Europe already.
Stef van Boekel
Right, right. No, it's a good point. I think what it basically starts is that you need to have a European hub, that European hub that those for example, you start management, and you stock control for the 9 other countries. So yeah, that is once you have set up that location, you are from a logistical point of view and operational point of view, you’re pretty much set to be able to more relatively easily start selling in all other countries.
So, for example, let's take Belgium recently opened like a couple of weeks ago, but keep in mind that Amazon launched on four countries in the last two years. So they almost, they went from five to nine countries, they were having over 10 years the same 5 and just in two years you see 4 new countries being launched.
That I think also is shows that basically the potential in the European market because there is growth and once you have a warehouse set up for example, we have in the Netherlands and we need to start doing stock control forward with Belgium. That's a much more easier thing to organize because most probably once you have to European hub, you have European logistical providers and they’re much more easy to able to make delivery contracts, for example, towards Belgium.
And that is one of the practicalities and although really specific example that there's only basically happening in Belgium is that in Belgium they speak Dutch of France. So once you already have your translations done in France and the Dutch, you can actually start selling in those countries without, you know, doing a lot of Investments and preparing the listing, but it's the same also with the customer support so that those are some practical things that definitely is helpful and basically, reaching your marks, every time it opens. So, Germany, we have Germany, Austria is all sort of open and that obviously is also still Germany, so you have a some more of those advantages specifically on the European level.
Paul Sonneveld
Yeah. Now, for sure you raise a really interesting point about Amazon Belgiun actually, and I'm really intrigued because You know, I'm kind of intrigued why Amazon decided to launch in Belgium, right? Obviously, they launched in the Netherlands two years ago or you know, and we had BOL.com, you know, very strong domestic player, you know. And it was really about in away very established Market, but Amazon wasn't playing in it so it was an opportunity to go there.
I'm not familiar enough with the Belgian Market to see what was going on there. But I know it's small and also geographically You know, surely there's not like a delivery lead time advantage in terms of, you know, ordering product that sits in a Belgian Warehouse versus something that sits right on the the border in Germany, right? You know, a little bit off peace here but If you were to guess, what do you think, What's Amazon's Playbook here in terms of opening up in Belgium?
Stef van Boekel
Well, I think if you look at Amazon, a majority of companies, I think it's the most common way to start growing your business diversifies and also for Amazon risk, and risk and opportunity. So I think they cannot. So if you look at a when Belgium has all surrounding countries, already have Amazon active, so it will be for me. Also that specific if they would decide not to start working with in Belgium because from that perspective, they’re already surrounded.
When you look at, for example, BOL.com will come as right now the largest player in the Netherlands as well in Belgium, but Amazon launched two years ago in the Netherlands as a newcomer. Right now, they’re already the 4th largest player, so this shows how much they're moving up customer experience level. The BOL.com experience is much better, really you cannot compare it. So, I think also there's four of those for Amazon. The first time that they actually enter the market where they normally would say, we been on price and for the catalog and on service, while in the Netherlands they basically are losing on service.
But how Amazon, for example is now eating up to market, why are they basically becoming the 4th already in a matter of two years as basically priced at 10% cheaper than in the Netherlands? Then number would call. So in the Netherlands we like discounts. I think like in the most countries. And so over time, also expect that Amazon in the Netherlands will be a top 2 player maybe a top 1 player in a period of of 10 years.
And then in Belgium, it's the same. They need to start like everybody else. And obviously it's a small market relatively if you look at all the countries. But there's another market that you can’t ignore, you cannot say, we gonna start launching a Europe and forget countries that are based in West Europe.
Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, that makes sense and I'm sure they're there are making available a large catalog that's maybe not physical stock that resides in Belgium but you know source from other parts of Europe to actually, you know open up pretty big.
Stef van Boekel
It's actually a big risk for the Dutch. This model actually having a radio interview in two weeks about a subject. I mean, if you look at Amazon right now, it is top 4 player. In the current scenario, they will be a top 3 player within a couple of years. But last time than 10% is actually happening by Dutch companies.
So there's companies are finding it difficult to understand, how Amazon works. No surprise for everybody in the Amazon industry. Same is happening also in Belgium. Right. So Belgian companies are so okay, Amazon, that like. So, what they do they go to the traditional marketing and want to start selling on Amazon then they realize it's not a marketing game, its an operating game, which nobody understands, right? So you have some marketing agencies that explain you how to start advertising but nobody’s able to explain to you how the store control with? how the compliance work? how the listing works? how the customer support jack? That's a seller support or vendor support in general works.
So what you know see is that all the revenues and there's not only the revenues but I think what is the real danger and but also with also the opportunity for international companies is that it's not only the money but also the work that's going towards International companies.
So we are having less how to say the people being able to work all the largest e-commerce channel of the markets. And I think that also shows a bit, how do the European Market works is that when I talk to an American, I'm going on holiday and it’s a very formal, I’m from the Netherlands, and then they expect that, because I can drive to Germany, France, and Belgium, and Luxembourg basically, in one day.
So they actually think almost certainly had nothing to do. I'm just going to drive to Paris, but I can tell you that never happens maybe once per year or something.
So and that also shows how the Europeans actually are thinking of. My only focus is all on the local market and the companies that are actually started to think International. And were talking about the neighbor countries but let's say all the nine countries that Amazon are active at in, there you also see that they are on the long term will be the winners because they gather more data. They have more resources on time to basically start eating away all the small players. So it’s a big risk for the local players specifically now for the newcomers, Netherlands, Belgium, Sweden people.
Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, that's really interesting. I actually want to go back to the point that you made about International sellers, I guess really taking advantage of these local markets opening up and essentially walking all over the domestic entrepreneurs because they've got such advantage in terms of experience and know-how and getting the most out of Amazon and obviously a lot of times they'll bring along like with their established ASINs and their reviews. I remember this happening in Australia when Amazon Australia open and of a sudden we live for two weeks and I see watches being advertised with 12,000 reviews. I'm like how is this possible in two weeks, right? But yeah, clearly Advantage there.
Stef van Boekel
Yeah. So we have to work with the existing brands because the same as we do we launch a product, then you directly have to proof the product by all the reviews, so it really makes it more easy to scale.
Paul Sonneveld
Yeah.
Stef van Boekel
And to the gutters on market and like I said, as a Dutch company and Belgian company, you start from zero and we all know how difficult it is to start, and then additionally, what you have is limited knowledge in the market. So that's also almost nobody where you can reach out and that you can that is actually able to really set up a good plan. But the negative thing is that everybody thinks ecommerce is fast money but obviously it isn't unfortunately, I don't have a longer gene.
Paul Sonneveld
To make money in new comers yes.
Stef van Boekel
You have to have a long-term approach and start building, reading the data, building, reading the data analyzing and then you have a good opportunity. But want to go back to your original subject of the main subject, Yes, that is happening right now is the existing status with the one year up to 50 years experience are now entering Belgium, the Netherlands, Poland and Sweden and I'm just basically stealing away the complete market.
Paul Sonneveld
So if just from their perspective, right? And because what the thing that I often hear is, You know, they used to operating their home market, you know, they're doing really good volume. You know, hundreds of thousands of months, you know, a lot of times more than that, and they then look at these small markets like Belgium Sweden, Poland. Australia about down here is sometimes part of that conversation and as always it's been around, you know, the markets are small. Yes, I've got this first mover advantage and I can really build a position but it's small and it has all this additional cost that I'm driving into my business, the complexity, right?
Stef van Boekel
Well, I was having a dialogue on LinkedIn and they said, okay. What are the main reasons to do it? And then my question is, what happens if you don't do it? If you decide to stay only in your home market and then the same thing happens with what's happening In the Netherlands, more entrepreneurs are reaching your markets with smaller products, good resources, what's going to happen with your product? And I think you shouldn't look at it like I said in the Lamborghini market that you want to get rich in 2 years you need to look at a long-term perspective. And if from a long-term perspective, I think the only way how to protect yourself is thinking our borders.
So yeah. Obviously, any new product, any new market requires an investments. But if you invest with the right partners, then your future on the long term looks bright. because when you would, for example, start launching in Europe in nine countries, there is already market differences from an economical point of view, from transport point of view, from general public interest point of view you are able to diversify like the topic of this podcast the virtually a risk and your opportunity.
So whatever happens at your home market that could be still be 50% of their revenue, for example, you're able to much better cope with the market fluctuations, specifically what we see today, right? So everybody is awaiting what's going to happen in the next monthss. If you only depending on a few projects in one or two countries, your risk is pretty large. So yes, of course, it requires an investment but then ask yourself, what if I don’t do it? Where will I be in five 5 years?
Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, I think you're raising a really good point around, you know, it's like any form of investing, right? The more asset classes, the more geographical spread the more stable, the returns, you know, in the medium to long term, which is I think part of the issue is as sellers, as we often have this really short-term mindset right, we hear these success stories. And you know, how do I launch it at market and become a 6-3 figure or seven seller in nine months? right? That's, you know, and there's a bit of the culture that goes around there.
And it’s good to be reminded that it's about building a sustainable business. Setting a strategy and committing to the medium to long term, which is, which is so true.
Stef van Boekel
Yeah. I think what we all obviously we are the same, right? So we are always trying to achieve the, the maximum result, but I think, well, that's good to keep in mind, specifically in Europe, Amazon's operating there. If you control the operations, then you're able to predict much more success and also your profits. It's marking overseas important but without having a good structure in place, you're basically not able to survive because the variable costs completely different on country level and if you don’t control, what if you didn’t calculate that front, then obviously you taking a lot of risk.
So my first step, if you look at what we then do, we analyze the market, we analyze on forward the county level, what are actually the returns after all the Amazon deductions because all those vary on product on country level. And basically, from there, you have a much more realistic idea, Are you able to make some money, right? So if you have a product that is so, for example, 40 Euro, and you have a competitor that's been able to sell for 30 Euro and has very strong market position with good reviews etc, etc, then, you know, you can have a strategical research obviously to position yourself, but if you are for example, FBA brands, then I would recommend to focus on the market that may be smaller, but there's less competition, but still smaller. Let me say smaller, you can still be six or seven figure revenues, right? That's not bad, it's always still big market.
Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, now that makes sense. Can I just you started to talk about calls? Because the start of this conversation, we spoke a lot about seizing the opportunity and the revenue and you just mentioned earlier and I just want to zoom in on a little bit around cost differences between different markets. Can you make that real for our audience and just give us some practical examples, you know where people just kind of been surprised that the cost differences between different markets?
Stef van Boekel
Yeah well I can give you some practical. So when I started 10 years ago I've been in this industry for over 12 years so I'm a real dinosaur and the marketplace industry. Back then, I needed to go to if I wanted to sell to France I need to make arrangements with the post or in the UK with royal mail.
Right now, we can go and set up European delivery contracts with their contracts. But for example, delivery, return calls are completely different. So what for example, happens is that you ship something, to example, Denmark, and the product doesn't arrive. And previously in Denmark, If you did not receive the product in two weeks, You can get your money back. So basically what happens you ship the product to Denmark, it doesn't arrive, then you have to pay the customer back. So you lost the money and the product. That depends per country, they ship back once per week, once per month or once per whenever then you get your product back and you probably just also completely mastered the course has been in a warehouse for four weeks in a row. So, you also basically lose product.
So that is just a very practical example, if you're unable to really control the quality from product level, then you’re unable to really predict the margins you’re able to make in a country.
Paul Sonneveld
It's a little scary, right? Because how do you know about all these different things? You know. Imagine me trying to expand into Europe. You know, I would have never thought about what you just mentioned, right? I just assumed you know.
Stef van Boekel
I'll give you another example. I was selling a product I don’t know you could use it your wrist and I don’t know its for fitness sports. Then I was selling doing crazy, crazy good sales.
And then there was a guy in front of a door and gave us a German document. I couldn't be German, I can’t speak German. I couldn't read it because it was for sure a legal document. So called the front aid, can you have a look, you talking about that years ago. And then they said yeah you had a court, somebody sued you. Are you lost? I have to pay 100,000 Euro and he said, Why were we need a formed a front? No because that's how it works with this type of situations, first go to the court then the judge decides if they're right or not. And then we can start filing. So basically we were selling, having good time and then basically in the meanwhile there was already a judge making decisions about if we could actually start selling that if you could be able to sell the product in Germany, So, those are really shitty days, expensive things.
So seeing that any project specifically when you're from America or form of Australia as an example, you're not going to find this knowledge very close to you. So you need to roll up beside work with specialized parts. And again, there's no such thing as a European strategy, right? So, it make sure when you talk to those companies, into this persons that they have a local presence in the local team, etc. and all that. That’s basically the only way how you can secure yourself because you are the one taking the risk, okay? So you don't want to have those ways you want to minimize the risk. So make sure you do this with proper research upfront with who you're talking to.
Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, it's finding the right partner and, you know, we'll talk a little bit about how you guys fit into this equation. But before we do, we do have a question here from our from our live audience. And I'm just going to show it up and read it out to you. It's got to do with Texas, right? Always, when it comes to Europe, there's always a text question, right? So coming from a “For a company that wants to expand in Europe at PAN-U level, how can it cope with the tax complexity and the obstacle of different languages?
Stef van Boekel
Unfortunately, if you want to offer the next day delivery, what everybody expects in a country, you need to have a local VAT number. So that's something you need to set up with a specialized partner. So basically, that specialized partner needs to go to the German government, to the French government, Italian, Spanish, whatever, and to basically open up VAT number to do multi filings and yearly filings, and obviously, they need to, also, be able to do the regular audits. So that's something you need to set up that allows the specialized parties that will help you with that.
Paul Sonneveld
So, can I just interrupt you just want to say? Because you've just mentioned something that I was completely unaware of. I always thought you know what? When you want to sell in Europe, you go to the country where the VAT registration is the easiest and the quickest, and that covers you for all of Europe. But you just said if you want to do next day delivery, VAT number in every single country which is new news to me. Like you just wanted to make sure I heard that correctly.
Stef van Boekel
That's correct. By European law, if you want to ship the next day delivery, that means that you need to have a warehouse in that country. When you shift from Germany to Germany, you need of a German VAT number. Same with France etc. It’s a European law. You cannot avoid that. If you would say, okay, I'm just going to have my stock for example in Germany and I would start job shipping to France, Italy, Spain etc, you’re not going to win because still people expect next day delivery or I mean, let's say, 2 days 3 days delivery. If you do not offer that solution, you're not gonna bring on the long term. Because again, the companies that did and fast in the next day delivery are going to win from you.
So, that is the same thing also with your languages. Do not hire just a translator that so if your brand you want to have a uniform approach, if you want to send your translation to a French translator, Spanish and Italian, and they do not communicate with each other, you're going to get a completely different brand approach. So that is something very risky, which we would not advise.
Certainly, make sure somebody is specialized in Amazon, in general, Amazon has another side project. Not for a warehouse, and not for customer support agency not for translators. Amazon is a completely different ball game. Okay, so it's in the details. So make sure you have a company that does that cooperates together, communicates together and have one specialist. And then you can show you can assure you’re going to have the best reputation online.
Paul Sonneveld
I love that quote, I've written it down, you know, Amazon is not a side project, you know, I feel like
Stef van Boekel
Got to see a vacancy we're looking for an Amazon manager, then I always want to send them an email saying, okay, you're going to fail. There is no such thing as an Amazon agency. You can maybe have a project owner that talks to all the different departments but you cannot manage Amazon to understand all the different things.
But everybody here can confirm, right? It's a route to failure if you have somebody that needs to store control compliance, marketing campaigns, and everything is just not doable situation. But again, why should you? I always say you should consider Amazon as the one that has 50% of the market, right? So the majority don't do that, right? They prefer to ignore that with one person you can manage the half of the e-commerce Market but it's obviously yeah, unrealistic.
Paul Sonneveld
Human nature. We’re always looking for shortcuts
Stef van Boekel
But they’re lazy
Paul Sonneveld
Yeah That’s right. We are past the half an hour mark. But you know, this is a great segue actually, to talk a little bit about you. You know, this show is not necessarily about kind of, you know, talk about business themselves. But you operate a very interesting business in the European Marketplace space. Just tell us a little bit more about it and, you know, specifically, what kind of makes you guys different to the most service providers out there?
Stef van Boekel
So to give a bit of background. I've been doing this for 12 years. For 12 years, I've been basically with the majority of those years. I was working as an ecom manager, inside companies to set up the operation to start selling to the consumer, on a European level to marketplaces. Amazon is a side project for any type of company.
So in 2018, I decided makes more sense to design the operation completely from zero specifically towards with the needs of Amazon. So I call it IOS Amazon infrastructure as a service. Basically, we are an operator that has those everything in-house. The VAT filing, customer support, the translations. So, we have offered this operational structure to brands and to agencies to basically launch on the PAN-U level in nine countries in a matter of weeks without them have to invest in their own operation.
So we are sort of answer and solution. We organize the import until the delivery to the customer support everything basically to start working on a PAN-U level by a specialized partner.
Paul Sonneveld
And for those that are watching today’s show Stef, you know, you've raised a lot of questions. I feel like I need to pick up the phone and apologize to a couple of people for giving them the wrong advice about Amazon Europe over the last few years. But for those actually thinking about expansion, maybe if we weren't in the past and maybe want to get in touch with you just to sort of explore and form a more informed viewer on how to do this. What's a good way to get in touch with you and your colleagues?
Stef van Boekel
Well we have a website, it's called marketplacedistri.com and there, obviously you can find us, you can find me on LinkedIn so you can connect me. I think for the agencies here we set up a specific special agency solution where the agency can focus on the performance marketing and account management. But we are on the background operating the day-to-day stuff. So you know believe it or not, you have your own seller account, but we are on the background making sure that the VAT filing is done enough today.
And I think if you want to explore if this is an interesting solution for your customers and I advise too. So just look at your current catalog, we look at the market and we're going to show you what will be our approach which timeline deliverables and obviously with which costs are related and then you have a realistic solution. So I think what's interesting there for agency If you folks, for example, the US with our IR solution should be able to extend your marketing services to nine new countries while in order to have to invest in your own team or have learn and let's say about the European market. So just reach out and we'll talk. Basically, like I'm talking to you. I can talk to everybody and share.
Paul Sonneveld
And I'm sure is everyone is seeing you are super approachable. So that is fantastic. Well look, we are out of time Stef.
Stef van Boekel
Thank you Paul.
Paul Sonneveld
I want to really thank you. I mean, I love all these nuggets. As I said, I generally feel like very naive, but I appreciate the knowledge that you've given me to help me had be more informed, as I talk to other people in the industry as well.
So thank you so much for sharing, for being generous and sharing those you know many, many years of experience in them. I'm sure some painful experience along the way too. So yeah, thank you so much. And for those that are tuning in today and want to get in touch with Stef, hit up his website. So thank you so much Stef. I look forward to having you on the show next time.
Stef van Boekel
All right, talk soon.
Paul Sonneveld
Thanks everyone and that's it for the show today. If you're interested in exploring more about Marketplace Distri, go and hit up that website or if you want to know anything about MerchantSpring, just go to merchantspring.io.
That's it for this episode of Marketplace Masters. Thank you so much for listening
Till next time. Bye bye!
